Rachel Stomel

... My rav asked why 2 very alternative ppl not entirely on-the-wagon halakhically would want to commit themselves in a way that could put their children at risk for mamzerut. Implication: don't do kosher kiddushin. The couple insisted.

This, of course, is one proposed solution to the agunah problem: no kosher kiddushin for anyone. To me, this feels like overkill - like making a tiqun bigger than prosbol for divorcees & rabbis who have a problem with acting responsibly (modulo problems in the civil legal sys).

I feel philosophical ?s fermenting beneath proposed workarounds for agunot & mamzerim: what justifies & what mandates eliminating a category of the Torah from Jewish life? I agree עת לעשות לה' הפרו תורתך. But when? כבוד מוריי: @rabbisedley @JYuter @ravaaron @herzlhefter

btw, the kiddushin al tnai option that I mentioned, which is incorporated into the @cwjisrael prenup, is also used by everyone who marries through @ravaaron's Chupot initiative. To be clear, it is not eliminating kiddushin. Tna'im b'kiddushin are mentioned in the mishna.

This sounds very promising.

It's not a new concept. Our particular version has been around for years and we relaunched a tighter version of it last year (this is the one that Chupot uses). It also has the haskama of R Sperber.

Dr Rachel Levmore also encourages the use of kiddushin al tnai now in addition to the prenup she advocates for. Based on R Broyde's tripartite agreement.

This question is a minefield and I'll probably get negative pushback but תורה היא וללמוד אני צריך. I know the Talmud (Ketuvot 3a) says כל דמקדש אדעתא דרבנן מקדש but where does it mention someone specifically making a tnai before getting married?