Talk:Name

The lead

The lead is currently (28 Dec 2008) too long and inclusive and fails in its purpose: to succinctly but accurately define the subject. The word easily gets us into philosophical hair splitting, which is not appropriate in a lead. Better to briefly define it, point out the deeper implications of the concept, and list the various subtypes of name.

The lead currently begins with "A name is a label for a noun...". I don't think so. If it's a label, it's a label for a thing or concept, not for a noun. But even "label" is not a good choice of words because that connotes a physical object (a name tag) more than "name" does.

How about:

A name is a word or phrase that identifies something. The "something" being identified can be a specific person, animal, object, place, or idea or it can be a general class or group of such entities.

The concept expressed by this word is a basic one in language (grammar, semantics, and lexicography) and philosophy (metaphysics and epistemology).

In English grammar, a name is expressed as a noun or noun phrase.

[Then on to a discussion of the subtypes: proper name, general name, personal name, etc.]

Frappyjohn (talk) 21:37, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

San Francisco example

The article claims that there are "at least three" series of parallel streets that are named alphabetically in San Francisco, but I can only think of one series, the Sunset District streets referenced direectly in the article. Could somebody please clarify where the other two series are?The Opressed One 19:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC) ..k;lk;kl —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.238.248.120 (talk) 05:33, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Plato in the Philosophical Discussion

Plato in the cratylus discusses two types of philosophical views on names, namely naturalism that all names have an inherent meaning and another view in which names are purely the convention of societies. If I had the time I'd summarize the work and its relevance to meaning here but I'm extremely surprised that Kripke and Russell are mentioned before Plato.

someone should rectify it.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.24.196.209 (talk) 04:28, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

uncharted pieces

i'd suggest a disambiguity step: named - interned domain name server daemon.

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It seems to be that the external link "Copernicus Consulting - Trademark & Naming Experts" is less of a useful link and more of an advertisment for a service.

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It seems like the names of persons section should be in a separate article, but Personal name is misleading, since the term is commonly a synonym for first name. Name of a person is graceless but accurate. Also, Arabic name etc should be something like Names of Arabic persons or some such, since they don't say anything about the naming of places or objects. Stan 07:32 31 May 2003 (UTC)

I agree completely. I'm starting Human names. Akb4 20:49, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

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Posted by an anon user under Common and Scientific Names; not sure what they meant, as there is no such article. Elf | Talk 00:39, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I was wondering the Name density of everyone. Please go to that topic and edit it.

Elf | Talk 00:39, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Someone said spam?

"the word name is also used for cow killing in New York"

This doesn't sound to me like it means anything. Delete?

Similar names are an intresting annomaly in the English language, and for that matter culcture. Names like Janice and Deborah can be, for all practical purposes, be considered similar as one. Conversly, uncommon names, like Chad, do not actually exist in the real world. The essence of fiction.

That was an eminent example of a mild and loony WP:VANDAL joke. I don't know when you said that, because you forgot to sign your posts with ~~~~, so therefore I took the oportunity to explain the pretty obvious. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 14:02, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Not only Iceland

In Russia (as well as at the very least Ukraine and Belarus) patronymics are used until this very day. A person has first name, patronimyc and than family name Beta m

Low quality?

"Behind the Name etymology of names" has been removed under the pretence of being low quality website, but personally i have managed to find much more information on it than on Ancestry.com, and the information is actually internationalised not limited to United States, which is very important (you know there are other countries out there. I'll wait for a responce, and then restore the link if there will be no reason provided to back up why this was a "low quality website." Beta m (talk)

Since behindthename.com is for first names only, the link should only be in the Given name article (which does have the BTN link). The ancestry.com link covers both first and last names. It is unfortunate that name selection for ancestry.com is so American/British-centric, but the Oxford books they use for references do give some of the most complete and most accurate name etymologies that I have ever seen. Compare "Gregory", for example, where the ancestry.com information is the only place that I've ever seen that explains why the name was so popular with popes and saints (it's basically an ecclesiastical pun)—compare [1] with [2]. What I most wanted to do was delete the babynamebox.com link, which has been spammed into practically every name-oriented article in the Wikipedia, and has very minimal definitions (plus eliminate the MSN "dress" in the ancestry.com link). If you really want to add the link back in, I will not get into a revert war, but I hope that you understand my reasoning. BlankVerse ∅ 05:21, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Point about given names taken, i won't put it back. I just found this link while searching for something else, and thought i'd add it to this article, not realising that it was already available in the one that is more appropriate. Beta m (talk)

Proper names, in intro

Can the intro be fixed by someone more knowledgable, as to whether it includes named non-living entities or not. For example the following:

• "My dog's name is Jim"
• "That building is Buckingham Palace"
• "The planet's name is Jupiter"

FT2 (Talk) 10:53, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

nyc example

I'm rewriting the bit about nyc street names. Right now it reads:

In Manhattan, street names are numbers and East-West streets are "Streets" whereas North-South streets are "Avenues".

I think this would be pretty rough to read for many people, especially if they aren't totally fluent in English. Akb4 19:09, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Verbal Usage for naming?

I hate to be well, how do you say, technical, or overtly politically correct, but... The line which reads that "naming" is a "verbal" label, sort of struck me as odd. Because language has a wide variety of adaptations, some of which are non-verbal, such as ASL, better known as American Sign Language, commonly used by the Deaf or Hard of Hearing, I have taken out the word "verbal". Also, almost every culture around the world has used visual, facial, or body cues to express ideas, and/or emotions. These are also non-verbal elements. A deaf person does have the ability to name things.

Thanks, Ryver wolf 69.245.175.43 04:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The word verbal seems to have taken over from oral in popular language, because oral gives some people the giggles, but the root verbum means word. The elements of sign language are words – discrete arbitrary signs – even though their medium is different. —Tamfang 06:09, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

cynonymy

WHy is DOG names linked from this page?

Why not? —Tamfang 02:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Because its been decided its not relevant to link to human name websites. Linking to a dog name site, from a names page is clearly link spam. If its not, then its just as relevant to add at least another 100 links at the bottom of the page, to cat anmes, fish names, people names, muslim names, boy names etc, any type of name.

This is a link to a commercial site for the purpose of internet marketing on the term "dog names". It is not a link made for the purpose of providing a relevant link to a site having real value to the topic of names.

Animal use of names

I have removed the above section, which had the text:

Recently, research has demonstrated a long-speculated concept in animal communication - that at least one species other than humans uses symbolic, personal, names. At present this has been identified only in dolphins, who use whistling communication to convey information including the equivalent of personal names. The names are specific to individuals, who will respond even when voice, speaker, inflection and other cues are removed from the sound.[3] [4].

This is a misleading summary of the research. In reality, dolphins do not use whistles in any sense remotely similar to the human use of names. What the research showed was merely that a dolphin can identify another dolphin by listening to the other dolphin's personal whistle. Dolphins do not then go on to use other dolphins' whistles to refer to that dolphin, or anything of the sort.

See Language Log's summary. — Haeleth Talk 09:57, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Doubled first section

Why is section "Use of names" repeated twice on screen now (20:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)) but is just once in the source code?

rozek19

Self-reference

There are two links to Wikipedia:Naming conventions. One ought to be removed, but which one: the one at the top (because it is more on-topic under the header) or the one under the naming conventions header (because it's not helpful if Wikipedians can't access it easily)? --Gray Porpoise_{Your wish is my command!} 22:19, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Shakespeare

I don't know what exactly to say about this. It needs to be looked at, fixed, and given articles. Or something. --8472

External links

I removed the external links - the ranking of name popularity in the U.S. and other western countries doesn't really add anything to the page in my opinion. On top of that, the second external link had too much spam, as per WP:EL. The following EL would be better, providing essentially the same information but from an official website and without the spam.

Australian government database of names

WLU 17:21, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Naming

Naming used to be it's own article, but per discussion it was deleted (and theoretically merged with brand. Because I've never done this before, I am including the text of the original article below so that better editors than I may ensure merge nirvana:

-Naming Process- Naming is usually based on a clearly defined marketing strategy or business plan and includes not only creative development of a name, but also its sound harmony test, a comprehensive analysis of its perception by a target audience (including groups comprised of native speakers of different languages), identification of a degree of its novelty, measures of increasing its patent protection, and the patent protection itself.

Professional development of a name also implies that the specialists involved in the name creation should take into consideration possibilities of its graphic design, its further use within the trade mark, elements of package design and company style.

-Result- The intended result of the naming process is an actual word, newly coined pseudoword or various combinations of them that might not be easily pronounced or catchy, but have to meet the above criteria.

--Cjs56 05:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

This has very little to do with name to me, and a lot to do with 'brand' or 'branding'. At most, I'd say two sentences with a {{main}} to brand. WLU 13:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, and upon a more thorough reading today, everything that should be in this article is already in this article and everything that should be in brand is in brand. --Cjs56 23:20, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I rule :) Glad you approve, thanks for the info from naming. WLU 13:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Names in religious thought

See also Pseudonym#Name_in_religion This section needs expanding into an article in its own write, but I cannot do it do to lack of access to sources! The name of a character in both mythology and in religion often identifies that character's function, if the translation of the name is known. Naming something is the first step in gaining control over it, which is why the naming of brands and of Wikipedia articles is an issue. Naming a child or animal and getting it to respond to that name is a first step in getting it to respond to verbal commands. Getting a child on the autistic spectrum to respond to its name is an issue. Naming the name of a god in order to gain control over it is definitely a religious issue. A superstitious issue is the bandying about of one's own, true name in the hearing of evil spirits that may bring about one's premature death; so, too, bandying it about in the hearing of law enforcement officials. Pawyilee 10:08, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Your identification of names as a source of control is original research without a source; you might want to write your sourced, suggested additions on a sub page before placing it on the main page. WLU 19:08, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I live in a remote province of Thailand with a sloooooooow Internet connection, and can't get to sources! I put this here as an appeal to someone who can. But, you don't have to look far for examples, such as the next time someone gives you an order, or you give an order someone else! Pawyilee 16:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Not having to look far requires using my own experience, which means using my own knowledge as a primary source, which is right out. WLU 19:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Which is why I put this on the TALK page and NOT in the article! Pawyilee 14:41, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Best Google can do in the time wasted: not good enuf.

http://www.spiralnature.com/magick/mysticalnatureofnames.html By: Jeffry R. Palmer Ph.D. http://koti.mbnet.fi/neptunia/essays/namep1.htm ANYARA-APHORISMS http://linguisticmystic.com/2006/07/30/this-post-left-unnamed-so-that-you-dont-have-power-over-it/ http://www.excommunicate.net/understanding-the-power-of-names http://academicmaps.blogspot.com/2006/12/positive-power-of-names.html http://www.jewishagency.org/JewishAgency/English/Jewish+Education/Compelling+Content/Worldwide+Community/Connecting+to+Community/The+Power+of+Names.htm http://www.ajn.com.au/news/news.asp?pgID=2245 ASK THE RABBI The Real Camelot: Paganism and the Arthurian Romances, by John Darrah (Thames and Hudson) Pawyilee 15:44, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

If you want to make or edit the section, either do so, draft it here or on a user sub page and ask for feedback. WLU 13:05, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

This is a test Article

How are you all. This is Hitesh's comment to test out the wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.211.254.96 (talk) 08:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Article lacks discussion of logos

Naming, in the Greek and Christian tradition of thought, is to be distinguished from an utterance. This name is called "logos" and should definitely be discussed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.107.91.99 (talk) 21:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Huh? Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 14:04, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

named is the common name for the BIND name-daemon on Unix/Linux systems, not just the past tense of "to name"

I do not believe that the Wikipedia "named" page should redirect to name. Named should be a disambiguation page that shows both naming and "named". If I am overruled on this, please consider adding something to the top of the name page or the disambiguation page.

"BIND (Berkeley Internet Name Domain) is the most commonly used DNS server on the Internet, especially on Unix-like systems, where it is a de facto standard." Source: BIND

"BIND ships on most Unix platforms, where it is most often also referred to as named (name daemon) and is the most widely deployed DNS server." Source: Comparison of DNS server software#BIND

--GlenPeterson (talk) 05:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

I guess someone decided to edit the article and mash on their keyboard in the process of that editting... so I took the liberty of undoing it.Dannydog3067 (talk) 23:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Concept of naming in Buddhism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Pakmo#Names http://www.namgyal.org/articles/names.cfm

-- 88.75.206.136 (talk) 09:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Names Given to Items

There is currently neither a page nor any mention of the topic of names given to items, such as weapons, computers, or custom cars. There has to be a technical term for it; either that or it falls under an already listed catagory and needs to be referenced in that catagory's description. A good example of this type of name would be Bilbo Baggins's sword, "Sting" from the Lord of the Rings books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wing Dairu (talk • contribs) 17:20, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Be welcome to, if you know of sources that deal with that interesting subtopic. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 14:14, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Possible confusion

The section Naming convention deals with a lot of things that are not names and others that are. First of all: a star "name" such as "HR1877" is not considered a name by astronomers, but instead as a designation – maybe a linguist or a philosopher would disagree. However, I'm pretty sure that the philosophers, linguists and the other scientists agree that in science most of the "naming" is creating terms, which are not names, but instead standardized non-name nouns (so called NNN:s) (disregard that last thing). I don't exactly know how to improve the section, but anyone having an idea might be WP:BOLD – the article deserves WP:BOLD. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 14:14, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Another philosophical question: is a "name" that is extremely rarely used really a name? (It's not like an unused name simply is an object that has never been accessed, a name exists only if uttered). A "name" that is commonly used is certainly a name, a "name" never used is not a name, but a "name" that is only used once or twice? Isn't that a failed naming? Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 14:19, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Naming systems

I don't see any mention of the system used by either NATO (for Sov aircraft) or RAF (for their own). TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 00:52, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Fictional names

This topic is very interesting. An article could be written on J.R.R. Tolkien's alone. I don't think it is important enough for this main article however. I removed the totally uncited sections. I hope someone starts an article on the topic. Steve Dufour (talk) 04:56, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

User Jaibhim forcing pictures from his community into the article

User Jaibhim is constantly posting pictures related with a community he is affiliated to, hence the images have been removed under Wikipedia:Conflict of interest Wikipedia:Vested interestNickelroy (talk) 00:11, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Nickelroy is vandalizing by removing Name change movement photograph

Nickelroy is constantly vandalizing Wikipedia articles. This user never followed WP:BRD. This user is contentiously Wikipedia:Harassment doing for me. This user never stated particular reasons for removing following photograph which is very much relevant to this article. For removing any information follow WP:BRD because image fulfill wiki policies and very much relevant to this article. Discuss on talk page if image is irreverent for this article.

JAIBHIM5 (talk) 19:16, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

                            LOUIS ARMSTRONS   
                          BLACK HISTORY MONTH

NAME BEFORE THEY WERE FAMOUS?

STAGE NAME?

BIRTHDAY?

CITY AND STATE WHERE THEY WERE BORN?

WHAT PART THEY PLAY IN THE MUSIC WORLD?

IF THEY ARE CURRENTLY ALIVE,IF SO WHAT ARE THEY DOING NOW?

[[]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.1.164.55 (talk) 02:54, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

                            LOUIS ARMSTRONS   
                          BLACK HISTORY MONTH

NAME BEFORE THEY WERE FAMOUS?

STAGE NAME?

BIRTHDAY?

CITY AND STATE WHERE THEY WERE BORN?

WHAT PART THEY PLAY IN THE MUSIC WORLD?

IF THEY ARE CURRENTLY ALIVE,IF SO WHAT ARE THEY DOING NOW? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.1.164.55 (talk) 03:04, 4 February 2015 (UTC)