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This question:Why would a language be untranslatable by universal (machine) translator? inspired me to consider, if one possessed a universal translator, is it reasonable to consider that it could be used to translated an encrypted message? Of course, it could be expected that if a UT could be used for decryption, that those encrypting would devise a way to thwart the UT, but could the UT be used to decrypt more primitive forms of encryption, such as an enigma machine generated encrypted message?

Edit: The question was asked as to how it would work. How I perceive it, it would have a complete understanding programmatically of how we communicate, in all forms, with updates when we find new ways of communication that hadn't been conceived before.

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That depends. How does your hypothetical universal translator know that its translation is correct? – Philipp 21 hours ago
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Philipp makes a good point, MS notepad can "translate" a program into text, but the result is gibberish. So your UT might happily try and translate whatever message it was fed without error, but encrypted messages might come out as gibberish. – Sam 21 hours ago
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I think a key question you need to answer before asking such a question as this: if someone intends to deceive you into believing their words mean one thing when they in fact mean another, what does your UT do? When you call up a girl to ask her out, and she says "maybe later," does it translate that into "I don't like you that much?" – Cort Ammon 14 hours ago
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@Schwern The Enigma is claimed by Wikipedia to have had a theoretical key space of around 380 bits, reduced to around 76 bits in what might be considered reasonable situations. I haven't verified against the cited source, but the citation points toward the NSA (yes, that NSA). I'm not sure I would consider that flawed by design; it was secure enough that, had it been used correctly, chances are it wouldn't have been broken. It was lack of operating discipline that allowed the Enigma to be broken, not lack of cryptographic strength. – Michael Kjörling 10 hours ago
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I'm now actually wondering if you could make a "halting problem" argument against the existence of a UT, but first you'd have to nail down the definition. – pjc50 8 hours ago

No

I will make the assumption that the universal translator generates a consistent mapping from words, expressions, or idiom in one language to another. I would also assume that it uses samples of language to map potential meanings onto any phrase or sentence, and through some super-advanced algorithm, quickly discerns the meaning of what is spoken.

The problem with cryptography, in this context, is that there is no direct mapping of a word (or expression, or idiom) from one language to another. If I say something, and public key encrypt it, and then you say the same exact thing and encrypt it, those two statements might not be the same thing! Their encoding depends on the user's key. Furthermore, if I say something today, and then the same thing tomorrow, when encrypted those won't necessarily be the same thing either!

The problem with encryption, is that there is no consistent 'language' to be translated. There cannot be a map of a concept like 'blue' to a discrete subset of an encrypted message. 'Blue' could potentially be encrypted any way, depending on what specific cypher is being used that moment by that user.

Therefore, based on the assumptions of how a Universal Translator works that I started with, the Universal Translator will not be able to translate an encrypted message.

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Yup, the difference between encoding and encryption comes to mind here. Encryption that satisfies Kerckhoffs' principle would have the unique key you speak of. Encryption that does not satisfy the principle is fundamentally insecure. – Bob 18 hours ago
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few languages have only direct mapping of words and expressions. most have contextual cues, subtext, and nuance. that's why google translate creates gibberish so often. A universal translated would need to actually be able to think to understand these. – John 18 hours ago
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@John The point is: given the same words, contextual clues, subtext, and nuance as input, the UT should generate the same output every time. With an encrypted message, given the same byte stream as input, the output could be different every time. – kingledion 6 hours ago
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I think the point everyone is trying to get at here is that true perfect encryption produces an output that is utterly indistinguishable from random noise to anyone who doesn't have the correct method and key to decrypt it. In technical terminology, this is what distinguishes encryption from encoding. A hypothetical perfect universal translator would be able to decode any encoded message, but would find as much meaning in an encrypted message as it would in the sound of running water, or the noise a Geiger counter makes when pointed at uranium, or TV static on a dead channel. – anaximander 5 hours ago
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I understand people's points about encryption, but I think you're underestimating how impossible of a task a universal translator is. There's a reason Egyptian hieroglyphs completely defied translation until the discovery of the Rosetta Stone. And the sorts of universal translation we see on star trek where the computer starts translating words immediately within the first 2 words without any real life context or reference is just as mathematically impossible. – Shufflepants 5 hours ago

An encrypted data stream is statistically indistinguishable from a purely random stream, at least a data stream encrypted by a good encryption algorithm. Since the encrypted stream cannot be distinguished from a random stream, there is no structure on which a universal translator could work. If the encrypted data stream can be distinguished from a random stream then the encryption algorithm is broken; we should expect that when we will be smart enough to build a universal translator we will also be bright enough to write decent encryption algorithms.

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That significantly depends on the method of encryption used and upon the method by which the universal translator translates the language it is hearing. While there do exist Information-Theoretically Secure encryption methods as you describe, there are many, many other kinds of encryption that can be broken with enough computation power. "Enough" computation is very subjective, but if the UT has that kind of power it could possibly decrypt an Information-Theoretically Insecure message. – MozerShmozer 20 hours ago
    
@MozerShmozer There's nothing about that scenario which differentiates a UT from any other powerful computer brute forcing weak or flawed encryption. – Schwern 18 hours ago
    
@Schwern Which seems to be exactly the point of the question! – immibis 18 hours ago
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The point I was making is that progress in AI (as the basis of the universal translator) will most likely be matched by progress in cryptography. We are already transitioning towards algorithms which are immune to quantum computing, although at present we don't have real/practical/powerful quantum computers (depending on your take on the current state of the art). When the universal translator will appear as a tiny speck on the horizon cryptography will have already introduced encryption algorithms immune to it. – AlexP 13 hours ago
    
@MozerShmozer While you are correct, I think there are two things worth noting. First, encryption does technically describe a process that renders information indistinguishable from noise; not all "encryption" methods succeed in this regard but to information theory this is an implementation flaw rather than an aspect of encryption as a process. – anaximander 5 hours ago

One important aspect that all naturally occurring (and some invented) languages have in common is that it has native speakers who learned the language by listening to it. I won't go so far as to say that the languages were "designed" to be learnable, but any language that isn't human-learnable wouldn't last very long.

Encryption, on the other hand, is specifically designed so that a listener who doesn't know the encryption will be unable to decipher it.

A translator that is designed to be able to learn like a human (no matter how much accelerated) won't be able to crack encryption (and the encryption being cracked is crackable by one or more of its algorithms) unless the ability to crack encryption is specifically included, just by virtue of this difference in "design" of language and encryption.

EDIT: This doesn't even go into the technical side of why encryption is difficult to crack, which is a much bigger question (and mostly irrelevant once you consider the above).

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The answer is unfortunately simple:

There are no universal translators in real life, so the capabilities of a fictitious universal translator in a story are 100% defined by the author's choice of such capabilities.

Thus the answer to this is plain and simply "whatever you want it to be." That being said, there would be some requirements on a UT that can decrypt encrypted text.

  • It needs to be effective at reading between the lines to find the true meaning. What you are describing would only make sense if the translator tries to find the real meaning of things, not just what is said. A translator that can unmangle enigma encoded messages would be able to read between the lines for a hapless male character who is obliviously missing the hints his wife is giving him. (come to think of it... can you make me one of these!?)
  • The mere fact that it is possible to translate such meanings should suggest that there is some degree of commonality between all languages. In linguistics, it is not known whether such a commonality exists. Chomsky famously suggested that the concept of recursion was universal to all human languages -- a so called "universal grammar." Strange human languages such as the Pirahã language make it difficult to argue this commonality exists in humans. Commonality between sapient species is beyond that, and in the realm of the author.
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-1 If it's "magic", sure, but in that case the OP wouldn't be asking the question. But assuming even the most basic laws of Information Theory hold, languages have patterns whereas encryption is trying to look as much like random noise as possible. See @AlexP's answer. – Schwern 18 hours ago
    
@Schwern And yet, literally by definition, encryption contains patterns. Otherwise it'd be pretty boring to receive an encrypted message! Hence why I focused on other attributes that would have to go hand in hand with such an ability. – Cort Ammon 18 hours ago
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No, by definition strong encryption contains no hints at the original message. For example, if I use a well-generated one-time-pad properly the simple message HELLO can become literally anything. Using the key XMCKL it becomes EQNVZ. It is impossible to break that encryption without already knowing something about the message or the pad because the message I sent could be any possible 5 letter string. It's only the key that gives it meaning. Any hint of the original message in an encrypted message is a flaw in the encryption algorithm. – Schwern 18 hours ago
    
@Schwern I suppose one time pads are the unique case, because their particular strength happens to be what they ask for here (although it does leak information, such as message length... OTPs arent perfect for everything). However, given a message that is longer than the key (rejecting OTPs), there IS information in the data, even if it may seem random. The fact that encryption algortihms are broken regularly shows the information is there. – Cort Ammon 17 hours ago
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OTP, properly used with padding, only leaks max message length, but I used them as a simple demonstration that good encryption means random messages. Good encryption algorithms aren't broken in one go, and it's not done by looking at the messages for patterns. Instead, the algorithm is examined for flaws which can be exploited to reduce the scale of a brute force attack. Without knowing the algorithm, having the message is useless. Understanding a language isn't about finding minute patterns in large amounts of noise anyway, it's about seeing patterns and interpreting them, more like decoding. – Schwern 16 hours ago

No.

This extends on some other answers going into more details, but the short summary is that every language by necessity has patterns. A grammar, a fixed vocabulary, semantics, all of that. A well-encrypted data stream should not have any meaningful patterns, it is indistinguishable from noise or randomness.

A universal translator by definition does not have a database of languages (it wouldn't be universal, or the database would have to be infinite), but rather "learns" a new language it encounters. The only way to do that is to somehow (handwaving) decipher the patterns in the new language. On an encrypted data stream, it would not have any patterns to identify, thus it cannot translate/decrypt it.


Even shorter answer:

No, translation and decryption are completely different processes with different rules and methods, and a system capable of one isn't automatically capable of the other.


Finally, answer with caveat: When you go into the realm of very, very simple encryption (Ceasar ciphers and other substitions), then yes your translator would be able to translate encrypted messages, because these primitive ciphers don't hide the patterns. Which is exactly why they are so trivially easy to break that you can do it with a pen and a sheet of paper.

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in order to translate nuance, subtext and handle contextual meaning a universal translator would have to be an AI. capable of actually understanding the language not just an algorithm. Such an AI would be able to break the simplest encryption (substitution, ciphers, ect) relatively easily, but more advanced encryption would just as hard for it as it would for humans.

If you want really hard science ideally both sides would need their own UT which would communicate together at high speed to learn each language. simply not having one on each side would make it much harder and require cooperation.

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-1 An encrypted message is (nearly) random noise. Training an AI to understand language patterns, nuance, subtext, contexts... does nothing to prepare it to break encryption anymore than a person with a degree in linguistics makes them a good modern cryptographer. All you've got at that point is a powerful computer, the AI is irrelevant. – Schwern 18 hours ago
    
hence the term simplest, things like replacement, code phrases, rotation, or filler. The question specifically asks about primitive encryption as well. – John 18 hours ago
    
not to mention using an obscure language has been used for military encryption more than once. just look at the US code talkers. – John 18 hours ago
    
I see now the OP did ask about flawed encryption like Enigma. Shame, makes the question so much less interesting. Apologies for the down vote, but the basic argument still holds: your AI is nothing more than a fast computer. As for "code talkers" that's not encryption, that's just a code. I did an answer about that over in History.SE. – Schwern 18 hours ago
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there I think that edit should help clarify. – John 17 hours ago

This sounds like a sword and armour problem.
A sword that can cut through any armour forces the design of an armour that can't be cut through by any existing sword, which forces the invention of a sword that CAN cut through that armour, which forces the design of better armour,....and so on.

Similarly, a translator that can decrypt encrypted information forces the design of better encryption algorithms. Now, unless the translator is specifically designed as a snooping tool, that's where it stops, otherwise you get an encryption arms race.

The answer, for a legitimate device, would be NO.

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One thing that wasn't mentioned yet is that a universal translator would be perfect for codewords and code phrases.

A codeword or phrase is basically a substitution for a normal word or phrase, for example a "tank" could be called a "can" and killing someone could be "taking out the garbage".

A universal translator could pick that up as a local dialect, synonyms or sayings and then automatically start translating them not even knowing it was meant as a code.

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I would expect a translator to translate literally, unless the dialections were included in the programming. – Sensii Miller 2 hours ago
    
I can understand your standing. I think of the line in Ocean's Eleven where the one guy was talking about being in a Barney. He had to explain, Barney = Barney Rubble = Rubble = Trouble. I doubt anyone outside his flat understood that. – Sensii Miller 2 hours ago

IT-guy here

Depends on the encryption-scheme in question. For keyless encryption-algorithms it's pretty trivial, since every word can be directly translated into an encrypted word and vice versa. As an example one could name ROT13.

For encryption with keys, things become at least hard to impossible. Consider for example the Caesar-Cipher, which is basically ROT13 with an arbitrary rotation-offset. The issue here is obviously that we need the key to get a proper result. We can of course guess the key, but this requires a way of distinguishing the correct output from rubbish that gets produced when we translate with a wrong key. This way may exist for certain inputs, but there is as well quite a good chance, that another key results in another text that is valid as well.

For modern encryption-algorithms this becomes even worse. Caesar-Cipher has a key between 0 and 26. AES256 encrypts with a 256bit long key. So on average we need 2 ^ 256 / 2 = 2 ^ 255 guesses before we get the correct key. With a quite good chance of finding a few other keys that output other "correct" output as well (correct in the sense that the UT understands it). In addition to that, the computation will take for ever with current super-computers and the worldwide per year produced energy would only be sufficient to test out a fraction of the keys. And at that point we haven't even done any testing whether there is a valid output.

So in short:
For keyless encryption-schemes: sure, it's just a simple mapping. For encryption using a key: theoretically yes, but the encryption needs to be extremely weak and you need to be lucky in terms of the encrypted text to get a definite output. For any stronger encryption you need an enormously strong UT (far beyond what is possible with state-off-the-art resources). Additionaly technology moves also on for encryption. E.g. there are already public-key-encryption algorithms in the making that are resistant to quantum-computers. You'll never be capable to build a UT that is able to translate ciphertext that was translated with state-of-the-art encryption, simply because that's exactly what encryption is supposed to do.

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