Funny thing about the blogosphere. You can hop and hop and hop and one day land someplace you’ve never been before and discover a new writer.
A: I’m a teacher 95% of my day — whether at the middle school day job, the graduate school evening job, or with my two children. The other 5% of the day, I write (or edit, or stare at the screen, or grumble). I started writing at 12 (or so) — did short stories for 1 year, poetry for 5 years (the romantic years), short stories for 2 more years (the college-sucks years), and after writing a horridly put-together memoir of 500 pages, I decided I could write a book. Eight years later I learned that “writing a book” does not mean writing a first draft and complaining that publishers won’t talk to you. I have spent the last 5 working on one of my 12 first-draft novels. It’s culmination through Editorville brings us to this point. I also ride my bike.
Q: So regular blog readers will know after years in the biz, I have never been particularly enamored of self-pubbed books, but after following the links to Alex’s site from blog regular Heather Lane, I have to admit, I was completely charmed by your book. How did you go about writing it? What was your inspiration?
A: I take an idea that literally seems to come from nowhere. In this case it was a man who couldn’t grow up and an 8-year-old genius who couldn’t be a kid. It was a dual narrated beast and 600 typed single-spaced pages. With the idea I sit down and literally let the characters write the novel. That makes it sound easy — it’s not. Sometimes the (insert bad word) characters won’t (bad word) speak to me. But when they do it feels good. For this book, the editing process took out the 8-year-old genius, about 10 other characters, and made the book actually readable. The fact that it is in second-person probably originated with my reading of Tom Robbins. I thought, “Hmm. I wanna try that.” Now it’s difficult to write any other way. I felt like I was in “your” head more than any other style and that the type of humor and quirkiness offered was unmatched.
Q: Did you attempt a traditional publishing route? Was there a special story behind pubbing it yourself?
A: Self-published books are crap. That is what we all grow up accepting. It’s a writer’s code. The allure of vanity presses to skip over the crud of the publishing world, but the fear that going to the dark side means we suck. I was there. I tried to go straight to publishers for 2 years and received these answers: “We are too small to publish much.” or “We only accept work through an agent.” Easy enough…until I learned finding an agent was like trying to find a life-partner who is also a publisher, massage therapist, and master chef. Difficult. Out of 30-40 queries only one person ever wanted to read my work. It’s hard to feel rejected when they don’t even know the work. I’m sure many of you out there will scoff: “30-40!? That’s nothing.” And you’re right. But I was putting so much energy into finding agents and publishers and so much effort on writing and re-writing query letters that I wasn’t writing. I write to write. I started missing that. At the same time I learned about on-demand self-publishing. I made a list of all the things I felt HAD to be done before I could self-publish: get an actual editor to do a run-through, make a marketing plan, get rejected 5 more times, feel good about the book. I did those things, then I spent my entire summer editing, making covers, formatting, and the other blah stuff, and there you go. Now, if someone wants to figure out how to have 2 jobs AND actually sell a book, I’d be glad to listen.
Q: I adore very quirky, offbeat tales, and this one appears to qualify in spades. Any writing influences?
A: Tom Robbins, as said before. Douglas Adams is a master at quirk. But I read a lot of narrative non-fiction, historical fiction, and drama-oriented work — it helps to stay out of my own genre for the most part — gives me a better self-image. Oh, and John Irving HAD to have done something to my brain as a senior adolescent — I read about 10 of his novels in a couple years when I started college.
Q: Why the second-person narration? Unusual! Are you fond of that as a writer? Did you consider a more conventional POV?
A: I can’t tell you how many people said, “Just switch to first or third person.” Actually, I can. Fourteen. I tried. I did. I sat down and tried to write the first chapter in third person. It stunk. Does writing stink? It sucked? It bit? What the heck does bad writing do? It didn’t flow, work, or hint at pleasurable reading. It was no longer the character that made the story. As for being fond of reading other second-person, I can’t say. I’ve read one. I’ve read a few short stories or sections of books with second-person, most which I didn’t like — but there’s not really a large enough sample size to say that is the second-person narrative style or just the abilities of the writer. I like my second-person, but I’m biased. Anyone who has read my entire book has said it works. But all two of them may also be biased (Mom).
Q: What was your editing process to get this ready to publish?
A: A writing class of 25 or so people. We split into groups of four, so three people and the teacher, Mary Gardner, got first dibs at it. Then I branched out to other members of the class. I learned that I LOVED telling other people what to do with their work, so I offered a lot of “trades” in editing and feedback. Through that I found three like-minded people. We all agreed that deep down we were all good writers. With that trust as a foundation we could tell each other what sucked and what worked. The novel went through this group with at least three full editions. They are saints, I tell you. Then I had two copy-editor types go through it. Then the professional. Then me, by my lonesome, three more times in the summer. The book is hardly a shadow of what it started out as — and you all should be grateful for that. Some day, when I’m Rowling-famous, I will publish the “original” work just to make an extra couple billion, and you all can get a good laugh. It was (no laughing allowed) originally called, “The Chicken Printed Curtain of Buddhism” — I said no laughing.
Q: What are your plans for promoting the book?
A: Well, good question. Independent bookstores. Blogs. Newspaper and on-line reviewers. And eventually coffeeshop and bookstore readings and signings. Crap of it all is, though, this is hard work. Any of you parents? So, we trudge along and wait for the teacher’s breathing time, summer, to make the real marketing push. I do, however, have a couple reviewers reviewing the possibility of reviewing my book for their review. (I wanted a couple more “reviews” in that sentence, but you can’t have everything you want.)
Q: What are you working on now?
A: What am I NOT working on now! I’m a write-aholic. (“Hello, Alex,” you all say.) Currently I’m working on this great piece I call, “answering questions for a sweet blog with as much wit and charm as humanly possible from someone who is one fitted-sheet short of a queen-size sheet set.” I started blogging myself which (where the hell does the comma go in that sentence fragment?) has returned me to shorter work. But I have one book in the editing process about a college kid who finds a dead body, takes the dead guy’s coat, and finds clues in the pockets. No, it has potential, trust me. I’m almost done with a book set in the future about a person who actually starts thinking about the world around him. No, it is not that dull, trust me. And I’m DYING to start a new novel with a character named Sam. Sam, the bastard, just keeps hitting me on the inside of the head and the conversation goes like this. “Write me, you dink.” “Write yourself, bastard, I have other things to work on.” “Crap if I care.” “Well, if that’s your attitude, stay in there, then.” “Oh, I mean, lovely blog interview, Alex. Perhaps when you are finished you could write a bit about me.” “Lovely, Sam. I think I just did.” Sam walks off mumbling random curse words. His grandfather, by the way, will probably be a funeral director. How’s that for a twist?
I look forward to communicating with all the readers of this blog and seeing their praise-laiden comments posted on Amazon.com any day now.
Thank you Alex . . .
Welcome Alex! You’ve found quite an advocate in Erica (to say the least).
My question is: why not try longer/harder to go a traditional route? I know you said that you were so busy querying that you weren’t writing. I’m wondering how long that process was. A year? Six months? Did you get personalized feedback that told you that in this publishing climate your “unusual” book wouldn’t fly? Conventional wisdom says to query 100 agents if you must. What was the final straw that made you buck convention?
I’ve not read any self-published novels or books; but I never say never. I’ve also said that I don’t know what I’ll do if and when I’m the one with my house wallpapered with rejection emails and thwarted partials.
Good luck with all your writing – and with your book!
Amy:
You know, I wonder about “climate” myself. I have a friend (he/she knows who he/she is) that I KNOW, without a doubt, would have had a deal two years ago, no questions asked. But the climate is brutal. So I wonder with a book that is different.
And I guess I will wait to hear what Alex says . . . but I wonder if for some people the Holy Grail is WRITING versus a traditional contract.
Anyway . . . great questions.
Alex, I look forward to reading the book.
Erica, I really respect you for the way you find excellent different voices and tell us about them.
Yay! I feel like a modern day match-maker. Thanks for the kind words Erica, and Alex–how is the book selling going?
Well, Alex. It must be one hell of a book for Erica to promote a self-published book. Good luck selling it.
Amy — it was about 2 years of publisher and agent searching. Not enough time. And not enough rejections for that wallpaper…yet. A friend from the publishing business said something like this to me that finally turned the tide: “Publishers are few. Agents are few. Who gives them the right to be the gatekeepers of what is out there? Who gives them the right to decide what is art? Do you want other people to read your work or not?” There are many routes I didn’t take to push into publishing, but there’s time for that for my next novel! I still think the “gatekeepers” are a generally good sift for all of us to go through…but in the end for this book, I wanted people to read it and was nervous the second person was making no agent or publisher even give it a chance.
Heather — ah, matchmaking…I digress.
Book selling…rough. A word to the self-publish dreamer. Selling is hard.
Climate….
I think about what books I buy NEW. I think about what books I buy for FULL PRICE. And I think about how much I buy used, loaned from a friend, loaned for a library, or steal from my mother. It makes me wonder how any writer who is not Dan Brown or Nora Roberts can make more than a couple bucks in this business. I suppose I am part of the problem that makes the “climate” for writers miserable…leading to agents and publishers being overly picky, just taking whatever will be the quick sell.
Or, to go back to a previous post on this blog — what gives that 42 word pitch that makes it all work.
I guess I write. Published or not published, I’m going to be a poor writer (at least I’m a teacher, which clearly brings in the big bucks). So, why not get some words out there to people and start amazing conversations like this one!
I think it is absolutely fantastic that you wrote in second person! People are so prejudiced against it. I can’t think of a single publisher who hasn’t said, “No second person!” especially in erotica, where I feel it works fabulously.
Your voice pops immediately, really strong. I love it! Have you read any novels in second person before? Did any second-person writing inspire you?
Good luck, Alex!
Joe:
Well . . . you have an unusual hero I am very fond of as well.
E
Heather:
I have no idea (serendipity) why I clicked over that day to that link, but then I found myself reading his story, and then clicking on the link (perhaps the Buddhism mention made me go further) . . . and then WOW! I was knocked out by the voice. But then I started looking at other things, like the cover . . . it was really, really nice . . . (and I can’t say that for a lot of self-pubbed books). ANYWAY, thanks for playing “matchmaker.”
Frenchie:
I am a fan of the absurd, so I know Alex’s book isn’t for everyone, but you know . . . I admire the storytelling a lot.
E
Alex:
I think it’s great that you aren’t set in one avenue or another (only self-pubbing/only traditional) but are seeing your career as a longer journey.
And yeah . . . making a living at this biz is tough.
E
Natasha:
Oddly enough . . . in the world of quirky writing, I didn’t find it strange at all. But I could see 2nd person wouldn’t work for a lot of other stories, perhaps.
E
Erica, it was the original title, The Chicken Printed Curtain of Buddhism, that sold you, isn’t it?
Great to meet you Alex! This interview cracked me up (in only good ways) — good luck to you!
Melanie:
Well . . . the opening page has something with a Buddhist monk, but by the end of the first chapter, there are Lutherans and donuts. I was intrigued. LOL!
E
I want this book with all my MIGHT! You’re on my blogroll now, so expect another sale!
Erica, you’re awesome.
Alex,
I think it’s great that you got to the point where getting the book published was more important than how it was published. I always say that if I can’t go the traditional route, I’ll spike some lemonade for listeners and do a reading in my backyard!
I think many self-pubbed authors rush into it and I am glad to see that your process was long and laborious! 😉
Natasha:
It’s hard to find second person…maybe not enough people take to it. Maybe not enough author’s risk it. Who knows? Tom Robbins has one full length book, a few other books have part of it in second person. But I would LOVE feedback on this book — if you think it works after you get all the way through. I want to write more, but should wait to see how the general public feels about it first.
Are any of you the general public???
Melanie: See, I KNEW the first title would have worked. Damn writing groups!
Realmcovet:
I should take this opportunity to introduce my blog. It’s new, more of a writing exploration versus a conversation format…though I’m learning.
[email protected]
And I LOVE feedback on the book. It is conversations like this that make better writers — not agents and publishers. (unless one of you is an agent or publisher, and then I’m totally lying).
Amy:
Word to the wise — spiked lemonade didn’t work. It just make them heckle more. But maybe that’s just me.
Amy — what do you write? What have you done already with agents and publishers? A writer friend goes to conferences and swears by it. I tend to just swear when I see the cost and the fact that it is in Far-Away-From-Me-Land and on days that I actually work. But it’s worth a try.
Alex,
Thanks for asking. I’m going to start querying agents in January…I’m at the beginning of that leg of my long journey! My novel is (if I believe the few ‘professionals’ who’ve read it) upmarket fiction. And after I got a handle on what that was (commercial crossed w/literary) I was good with the description. 🙂
Great interview. I’d like to check out the book. It must have a great voice. And, I liked that first title, too.
Realm, CHICK! Girl of my heart . . . haven’t “seen” you in a while. I KNOW you will heart this book.
E
Alex:
LOL! Yeah . . . I am sure the title would have equally worked with the chicken thing. 🙂
And spiked lemonade . . . must try that at my next signing. 😉
E
Alex:
Question for you . . . I SWEAR by my critique group . . . what was your reading group/Mary’s opion and impression of the novel, of self-publishing, of the voice?
Alex, you have a sense of humour that totally appeals to me. I just placed an order with Amazon & can’t wait to get me grubby little paws on your book. 🙂
Erica! Funny, but you’ve been really heavy in my thoughts lately, like, more than usual. You and Sexy Betsy… Expect an email from me, I MISS chatting with you.
This conversation has gotten me thinking about POV even more than I have been recently (which is a lot). I’m curious how you, Erica – and Alex – and anyone else tackles that issue, makes those decisions and how you find the right mix or balance.
Maybe it’s a heady enough topic for Erica to take on in a blog post?!
I know that we find what works in our particular book. I wrote my entire novel in first person and then wrote one scene in third and thought – Oh Sh*t! This is better! I’m in the process of rewriting the entire book in third. I’m also contemplating adding another POV intermittently – and I’m sure the only way to see if it works is to do it.
Guess something I still look for “an answer.”
Can’t blame a gal for tryin’.
Amy:
“upmarket fiction” — I like it. Never heard of it. Good luck on the agent search and keep in touch. I found it took 4 straight hours finding 2 or 3 promising agents (ones that really fit me and my book). Then another 4 hours crafting letters for them. At that rate, getting to 100 was looking daunting.
POV — the answer: hmm… I’m a firm believer that the character will tell you. It was amazing how much my character could “tell me” when he was in second-person. In third person, I find it hard to get close the characters, but for a couple of my books, that worked well. I leave it up to the fictional characters, not the actual humans around me.
So, Amy, what is your 42 word pitch for this upmarket fiction???
Paul — maybe when a big name publisher decides my book would make a great movie, I’ll change the title. When the switch was suggested, I had been growing weary of the confused, sympathetic looks of those that asked what the title of my book was about. Not everyone understands “quirk” — or at least my version of it.
Ah, Alex. The pitch is always the problem. Just ask the Phillies. 🙁
Erica:
I had two POV’s at first — the second-person guy and the 8-year-old genius was in first person. Mary and my early readers all stated or insinuated that the genius was boring. So, she got ditched. After many edits, here is a collective overview of comments related to POV (summarized for your reading pleasure):
“I just read the first chapter, and the POV just doesn’t work for me. I just can’t get over that this is NOT me I’m reading about.” — the short-help editors.
“I read the whole book, and the POV totally works. I’m just not sure that anyone will publish it. It may turn people off without giving it a chance. How hard could it be to switch the POV?” — long-help editors (1/2 my writing group)
“I read the whole book and love the POV. It makes the book original and works.” — me…okay, and a couple others.
Amy…and all others out there. I love reading other’s work. Love it. I have no time, but make time for it. Perhaps it is the teacher in me, or the fact that it is MUCH easier to give you advice on what to change that to actual work at changing my own work…but whatever it is, I love it.
So, while new to this blog thing, I would love to read a chapter or summary of your work, Amy…and all others out there…and give what minimal advice I have on style, POV, and other fancy stuff.
Realmcovet:
Thanks for the enthusiasm. Let me know what you think after you finish the book.
After writing up this interview, I sat down to finish my “future” novel and was depressed by how serious it was. Blah.
So I started a new novel (in second-person) that is a total goof-ball novel with lots of quirk. It’s amazing how it just cheers me up to write like that. I suppose I need a few novels in the works so that I can write for whatever mood I’m in…or have one really eclectic, directionless novel!
Alex:
I think some of it is probably where people feel comfortable with on the quirk spectrum. I have a very large tolerance for it, and I didn’t really feel put off by the second person, even though I sort of felt like I SHOULD. LOL!
Alex:
I always have multiple wips. And yeah . . . it’s amazing how quirky POVs just amuse me and cheer me.
E
Great interview! And I LOVED this line!
“I learned finding an agent was like trying to find a life-partner who is also a publisher, massage therapist, and master chef”
“Wow, you wrote a book!”
“Yep.”
“What’s it about?”
“Well, it’s in the second person.”
“What?” they are still cheery at this point.
“Like, ‘you do this’ ‘you do that’.”
“Oh.” Less cheery. “Like a choose your own adventure?”
“Sort of. Yes, but you can’t choose the adventure. ‘You’,” I put up visual quotes for them at this point, “is an actual person.”
“Who?”
“You don’t ever really find out. Nameless.”
“I don’t ever find out. Or ‘you.'” When they copy the quotes around “you” I know it’s over.
Nadine:
I tried using a line like that to agent once and she didn’t laugh. Turns out her partner WAS a master chef, massage therapist, agent. Go figure.
No time to read all the comments now, but had to ask if this is available on the Kindle. Would love to take a peek on Erica’s recommendation and your wonderful humor in this interview.
How awesome for you that you are putting this out there and have put in the work necesary to get it flying out the door (and continue to do so). Best of luck!
NEW ARRIVALS: Ask your questions and post your thoughts — I’m okay answering questions twice!
Sarah:
Thanks for your comments. It’s not on Kindle, but I think you can read all or most of the first chapter through Amazon. The self-publishing was through Amazon, so I think it will eventually get onto Kindle, but there is so much fine print that I’m fairly sure I promised my third born’s Halloween candy and my favorite pen set when I signed the agreement.
If you find it on Kindle, let me know. I’d be interested to see what my royalties are from that. It’s a crazy world on this side of the writing world, I tell ya.
Nadine:
When I ghostwrite, I sometimes liken it to being a therapist.
E
Alex–there is a clickable link on the bottom of your book’s page on amazon about selling the digital rights to kindle. It might be pretty easy to do.
I’m in Alex’s group, and I think I can speak for both of us (until Bob shows up and speaks for himself) that from the beginning supported his quirk, pov and all, because it made us laugh. But we, with Alex, were forced to acknowledge that it may not make it the most marketable, or appealing to agents and editors, especially for a first book. So we may have, somewhere down the line asked him if it would be a dealbreaker to try changing the pov, to get it more marketable, but always loved it as fans. Did that make sense?
I’d never read a 2nd person pov before, but after about a page, I stopped fighting it and questioning it and settled in and enjoyed it.He just brings the funny. page after page.
Monica
I’m not quite as staunchly opposed to self-publishing as I used to be, mainly because the climate really is so brutal right now. I do think the “gatekeepers” do a fairly good job for the most part, though, and unless this is just through-the-roof completely brilliant (which it might be, I’m not saying it isn’t), I have to agree that second-person narrative is something most readers would get weary with after a chapter or two, much less over the course of an entire novel.
But best of luck with it, Alex. You obviously put a great deal of thought an effort into it, and for that I applaud you.
Heather: You rock. I’ll check that out. Only if Sarah will read it, though!
Monica, aka, foolsinpajamas — she is the real reason we are all chatting here today. If you don’t have a Monica in your writing group, get one. She makes it all happen.
Jude: Of course my book is through-the-roof completely brilliant! (how does sarcasm come across?)
Thanks for the words of encouragement. The debate I have with this POV is trying to decide if the POV turns people off or just the book. There are many books that turn me off that others love — in all sorts of POVs. Am I turning off otherwise die-hard supporters with the POV, or just the ones that would have said, “Chickens? Buddhists? No thanks.” no matter what POV.
My advice to all (because it means you will read my book) is: read it to the end. Then decide. Good luck.
The debate I have with this POV is trying to decide if the POV turns people off or just the book.
Well, that’s the thing. It’s like starting a marathon with a fat screaming blister on your foot. You’re handicapped from the get-go.
Jude:
I disagree. In that . . . yes, it does make it more difficult, perhaps. But . . . I don’t know, I’m reading a post-modern book now, CLOUD ATLAS, and it’s friggin’ challenging. I think it probably depends on who would even pick up a quirky book, a Tom Robbins book, a David Mitchell book, an Alex Liuzzi book. I don’t know that Alex’s audience would EVER be the same as an audience for commercial fiction.
E
As long as it doesn’t fall into quirkiness for its own sake. I’m not saying Alex’s book does, haven’t read it, but I think that’s one of the potential pitfalls in approaching a narrative in such an unusual manner. I think it’s artful and all to try new things, but not when the writing calls attention to itself and detracts from Story. Again, not saying that Alex’s book does that, just that it’s something to think about.
Jude: I totally agree that the writing style should not distract — it should not be the focus of the reader’s attention. And second-person definitely does that for some people.
I can honestly say that this character just wanted second-person. It didn’t work in my brain any other way. And when I agreed with many people saying what you are saying — no fat blisters — I tried to change it. That is when it felt forced.
I suppose, sadly, that is where the self-publishing comes in. No one was willing to take the risk.
Alex, I’m sure it works. I read the beginning and it was fabulous. Am adding it to my list. I was just curious because I’ve always wanted to see more of it, but I can never find it, and there seems to be quite a bit of prejudice against it.
You’ve inspired me, though! I think I’m going to try some short stories in second person. 🙂
Too late, Alex. I already bought the hard copy.
Read the preview on Amazon. I must say it was a bit annoying at first, then I got hooked.
I’ve read other books that annoyed me at first – one in particular, I was into chapter 6 before I realized I had to stop and even that there were chapters. Seamless.
Looking forward to reading the rest of yours.
Sarah:
I know. Addictive, wasn’t it?!?