Minutes Telecon 2016-05-04
- There was agreement on the mailing list that media queries should respond to page sizes set in @page, but Florian wanted more guidance with what direction the proposed text should take. Florian suggested that he could write the text to allow the property function similar to @viewport. There was some uncertainty as to if this was the right approach, though several people were also in favor of it. Florian will write proposed text including use cases and bring it back to the group.
- Resolved: Adopt the proposed convention for propdef tables for shorthands (available here).
- ‘proximity’ and ‘mandatory’ still need to be renamed in Snap Points, but the group didn’t like ‘strict’ and ‘loose’.
- In the naming conversation around snap alignment container, there were really three items that need to be named:
- a box that has a scrollbar
- the viewport of the scroll container
- the snapping area of the viewport of the scroll container (i.e. viewport minus scroll-snap-padding)
- Resolved: A div with overflow that’s not visible (A) is a ‘scroll container’
- Resolved: B (the viewport of the scroll container) is a scrollport. C (the snapping area of the viewport of the scroll container) is a snapport.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2016-04-27
- Resolved: When a range endpoint falls in the middle of a grapheme cluster,
Range.getClientRects() should include the entire grapheme cluster.
- gregwhitworth asked for updates on browsers for their status on the control characters change resolved in Sydney in 2015.
- Safari hasn’t begun implementation
- No one on the call could speak for the Chrome team.
- The conversation around
viewport-fit for setting the viewport in the non-rectangular display will be postponed to the F2F where a whiteboard is available.
- The terminology will also need to be decided on to make the concepts clearer.
- The ‘auto’ value of
viewport-fit as written in the spec wouldn’t be useful. There was wide support for an ‘auto’ value that says do something between contain and cover that’s smart if you want to or just do contain. This would allow UAs to innovate in this new space.
- Changing the initial value of
polar-anchor to ‘auto’ brought up two different models of how polar-anchor should be used. There wasn’t enough time to decide between the two, so the conversation will continue either on the next telecon or the F2F.
- Either model would be fine with the initial value being ‘center’ so that is likely to stay the same no matter the result of the conversation.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2016-04-13
- The test submission process is being reviewed in hopes of making the tests more useful to more people.
- The discussion began around where on the spectrum from the current metadata status and no metadata should the working group land.
- It was expressed that the first step should be remove the pieces everyone agrees should be removed and see how much progress can be made.
- Tests should be accepted if they contain the important metadata, even if some of the styling is off with a request to fix the problems on the next bug.
- From there, the conversation moved to the build system being another thing obstructing tests.
- There was general agreement that the build system as it stands now isn’t needed, though there will still need to be metadata left in to get which tests apply to which spec.
- gsnedders will do the work to remove the build system and see what progress that creates on testing.
- Discussion on testing will continue on the mailing list.
- Resolved: Add
viewport-fit: contain to Round Display spec
- The description of the
viewport-fit property will need to be clear about the order it occurs in with other properties.
- The group liked the idea of having an additional attribute returning shape of display, however this information isn’t currently exposed to the browser.
- Until the device shape information is available, Florian will continue working on the media feature he is building to return if a device is round.
- Bert will continue looking through the errata of CSS 2.2 for test coverage and report back to the group once he’s done.
- Resolved: Accept grid issue 26; adopt the language in option B on this e-mail.
Full Minutes
Minutes Sydney F2F 2016-02-03 Part II: SVG Text Issues, CSS Masking, Filters, Gradients & Dithering, Investigation about JS API for realizing Level of Details, Transitions and Animations, Matrices
SVG Text Issues
- The group went through a list of issues and problems that Tav has documented here.
- Discussed using exclusions to help handle SVG shapes
- It was noted that shape-inside doesn’t have an equivalent functionality to wrap-flow (which says which side of the shape to fill); this is needed to handle filling concave shapes
- Discussed ideas for sequentially filling shapes
- Need to clarify that line boxes are fitted to non-rectangular shapes by requiring zero intersection.
- Middle (half of the x height) and Alignment (synonym for text top and text bottom) baselines may be useful to add to CSS Inline.
- It may be preferable to have the baseline table reset when the baseline font changes – this would be a behavior change from SVG 1.1.orientation.
- A decision on default values for mathematical values will wait for more data.
Full Minutes
CSS Masking
- Resolved: Change ‘auto’ value of mask-mode to ‘match-source’.
- birtles will investigate dropping mask-type. If it’s not dropped, he will update the normative text.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Filters
- The authors will keep moving the spec toward CR.
- Tav presented a new filter primitive he’d like added to level 2; dino agreed it was interesting and will look into adding it to the spec.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Gradients & Dithering
- Either AmeliaBR or Tav will create a proposal to either offer author control or spec guidance for browsers on dithering.
Full Minutes
Investigation about JS API for realizing Level of Details
- stakagi presented some very detailed work he had done (Available here)
- His wiki will be linked to from the spec as a list of things the spec needs to address.
Full Minutes
Transitions and Animations
- Both specs are being worked on and dbaron expressed a desire to have help in making progress.
Full Minutes
Matrices
- zcorpan requested review of the edits he made (Available here) in the WHATWG geometry spec.
Full Minutes
Minutes Sydney F2F 2016-02-03 Part I: 2017 F2F Meetings, Scroll-linked Animations, Fill & Stroke on CSS Text
2017 F2F Meetings
- All possibilities were tentative, but the proposals were:
- January or February will be US or Europe
- Spring 2017 Japan
- Summer 2017 possibly TPAC, depending on TPAC’s timing
Full Minutes
Scroll-linked Animations
- Due to increased interest, the group revisited a demo that dino gave back in 2014 on how to handle scroll-linked animations.
- In the time since the demo, there has been in increase in usage of scroll-linked animations as well as the Houdini effort which may make it easier to support use cases.
- As an example, exact pull-to-refresh behavior is likely out of scope, but it can be made easier.
- There were several different aspects that need to be addressed in order to spec this.
- Should have triggers be pre-transform.
- Anchor points need to be carefully defined in order to prevent undesirable behavior.
- This may generally have performance issues but, like custom layout, authors will work out how to use it performantly.
- Parallax triggered animations will need to be supported.
- The group went through a list of scrolling use cases shane had prepared (available here)
- Dino will take his original e-mail and turn it into an explainer document.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Fill & Stroke on CSS Text
Minutes Sydney F2F 2016-02-02 Part II: Behavior of contains:paint and overflow:clip, text-overflow and resize properties; CSS Text; Exclusions and bidi; Snap Points; bookmark-level: auto; Sizing
Behavior of contains:paint and overflow:clip, text-overflow and resize properties
- Resolved: Remove any mention of
overflow:clip from the containment spec and change section 3.3 to define that clipping happens (just not by affecting value of ‘overflow’)
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
CSS Text
- Resolved: In order to prevent overflow or wrapping of invisible white space, spaces at the end of a line must either be visually collapsed to fit within the line or must hang outside the line (as in hanging punctuation)
- Resolved: Add
word-break: break-spaces
- Resolved: Drop
pre-wrap-auto
- Resolved:
text-wrap: balance evaluation works off of remaining space in the line, not average line length.
- The changes to text-decoration ( listed in this e-mail) need to be explained further before a resolution can be reached.
- Resolved: Add
word-break: break-word to spec if Edge/Firefox find it critical enough to Web compat to implement it.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Exclusions and bidi
- Resolved: When a line is split by an exclusion, each side is its own line box for the purposes of bidi algorithm (i.e. they are effectively separated by a soft line wrap). Which line box is first depends on the block’s directionality.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Snap Points
- Resolved: The only pseudo elements that snap points apply to are
::before/::after but add a note that suggest there “might” be a future pseudos that can support snap points.
- There needs to be more use cases before deciding how to behave with snapping to unreachable elements
- Still no decision on renaming proximity and mandatory. Current suggestions are near|always, force|allow, force|proximity, force|near or keep the original names.
- Resolved: Defer 2D snap to the next module level of snap points
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
bookmark-level: auto
bookmark-level will stay the same in CSS Break.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Sizing
- gregwhitworth will investigate if min-width on tables is possible.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Sydney F2F 2016-02-02 Part I: A report on research into automatic layout, CSS Text, Round Display
A report on research into automatic layout
- Bert had visited groups from Monash University and YesLogic to hear about the work they’re doing creating algorithms in constraint spaces. Their algorithms not only take the known constraints, but can recompute as they get additional information.
- Uses for constraint solving include footnotes, sidenotes, indexing, table layout, and line breaking. It was mentioned some of this could be hooked in via Houdini.
- There was interest in working more with both groups, especially the expertise from the YesLogic folks. Specifically it was thought they would have useful feedback on the Grid spec.
Full Minutes
CSS Text
- There was agreement that there is a strong use case to solve for aligning to a particular character in table columns.
- Resolved: left-align the alignment characters.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Round Display
- Resolved: Add radial-gradient
side keywords to polar-distance. Mark issue for how to get e.g. from top left corner, 100% of shortest side.
- There was some uncertainty about how ‘contain’ should behave in relation to the previous resolution and in general. However, it was decided that decisions on if ‘contain’ should be a default behavior should wait on a final definition.
- The existing proposals for addressing polar positioning and abspos were discussed, but there were still unanswered questions.
- An outstanding concern that the mental model for this was the opposite of the mental model for the rest of CSS alignment to achieve the desired effect.
- Resolved: Make the following changes:
- Remove ‘polar’ value of ‘position’. Polar positioning applies to absolute/fixed/static/sticky/ relative positioned elements.
- Remove ‘auto’ value of ‘polar-distance’. Initial value is 0.
- Add ‘auto’ value to ‘polar-origin’. This means find the origin using normal rules for absolute/fixed/static/sticky/relative positioning.
- Make ‘auto’ initial value of ‘polar-origin’.
- Add an open issue as to whether top/right/bottom/left properties are ignored or interpreted somehow when ‘polar-origin’ is not ‘auto’.
- Note: polar-origin doesn’t apply to relatively-positioned elements. (Or mark an issue for making it apply somehow).
- Joone presented a proposal for supporting 3d transforms in round display. However, there were two major issues with this proposal:
- Transforms aren’t a positioning system. This proposal presumes that they are.
- Need use cases for what 3D polar coordinates.
- However, there was agreement that it might be interesting to add functions for using polar-positioning-like syntax as an alternate way to express existing transforms.
- The ability to support scrolling on a round display would best come from some of the scrolling work being done in Houdini.
- Since most pages are not designed for round displays, browsers on such devices simulate a rectangular viewport by designating a fully-visible area of the display. For pages that are prepared to handle the constraints of working with a round display, it was suggested to add an @viewport switch for authors to opt into the full viewport.
- Resolved: Publish new WD of Round Display, with polar positioning resolution incorporated (@viewport for next publication okay)
- The discussion from Sapporo about device-radius was revisited; originally it had been concluded that the query would no longer return a radius, but instead return if you’re visible or not.
- There was concern from LG about complexity and implementability.
- There was a suggestion that a qualitative query for “roundish” vs “squarish” would be useful, regardless.
- Florian will write up a proposal for this new media query.
Full Minutes || Spec Referenced
Minutes Telecon 2016-04-06
- Everyone was reminded to add their information to the wiki if they’re coming to the F2F and book their travel if they haven’t already.
overflow-block and overflow-inline will be combined into overflow with properties to specify inline and block direction. fantasai will write up proposed text for the new properties.- Resolved: Add
infinite value to resolution media query.
- Florian will write up a proposal for a raster media query.
- There wasn’t much desire to add
grid-template back, but there wasn’t much objection either. fantasai will focus on making the grid shorthand more robust and solicit more author feedback.
- Resolved: Publish Sizing
- Everyone was actioned to review the entire Flexbox DoC. The items that need the most attention are issue #3 and an additional paragraph added to order accessibility to address concerns from the accessibility working group.
- Resolved: Accept TabAtkins proposal for
calc serialization and add a note that there remains a concern about editors getting access to the bare string.
- Everyone was asked to please contribute to the email thread on the test suite.
- fantasai introduced a wiki compiled by Nick Guarino listing all resolutions and actions regarding each spec.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2016-03-30
- Rossen gave the working group a summary of the requests and concerns from APAWG.
- Their main complaint is CSS creates inaccessible content when additional content is added, such as generated content. They were also concerned about content doing visual reordering. The primary request from the group was to start work on CSS AAM and the secondary request was to create a task force to ensure that AAM progresses.
- The group didn’t object to working on AAM, so Rossen will check to see if the work is covered in the charter or if it would require a re-charter.
- There wasn’t any strong sentiment that a task force was needed, though there was a suggestion that a liaison may help communication. A decision on this will wait until the charter investigation and further discussion on developing AAM.
- Resolved: Publish a new WD of Box Alignment with a note about the default behavior when safe and unsafe is not listed explicitly.
- Resolved: Publish new version of CSS Shapes
- Rossen brought his feedback from Microsoft to the group and he had three major concerns.
- It won’t be something they would want to spend time to implement
- Interoperability will be limited
- Authors will find the simplification confusing
TabAtkins was only on IRC, so discussion will continue on the mailing list so he can respond.
- Resolved: Add defining a minimum for the
onload property as an issue in the Media Queries spec.
Full Minutes
Minutes Telecon 2016-03-23
- The Selectors section of CSSOM will be on next week’s agenda and everyone should review it in advance.
- Tentatively the group decided to combine identical units and resolve all numeric and multiplication and division by numbers when discussing
calc simplification for serializing specified values. On next week’s call this will be resolved formally after implementors have had time to speak to the appropriate developers.
- Everyone accepted the rewrite of selectors grammer in terms of the value definition syntax and TabAtkins will add a note warning that if this is inconsistent with previous grammar, please send an issue because it’s probably wrong.
- Resolved: Accept this change to the ch unit definition.
- Resolved: Accept change for issue #5 of Values and Unit 3
- Resolved: Add edits to 2015 snapshot and then republish.
- Resolved: Start an ED for 2016 snapshot.
- Resolved: shorten minimum/maximum to min/max in exclusions values
- Resolved: Remove the on-demand value from hover.
- Resolved: Move light-level to the next level of Media Queries
Full Minutes
![[Photo: group photo of the CSS working group in Lyon, France]](/National_Library/20160521004321im_/http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/csswg-2010.jpg)
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